I'm just one of the (I'm sure) thousands (millions?) of writers who started writing because we couldn't find the thing we wanted to read, so decided to create it ourselves.
Generally, readers become writers.
While not an absolute, I suppose, the vast majority of writers are, in fact, readers.
So yes, I very much appreciate those few writers whose weird matches my weird.
I've stumbled upon some of these "revelations" as well and I was honestly plainly confused. Isn't it like the first rule of writing that you also have to read? That you will never write a compelling story if you don't have hours and hours of words soaked up into you to learn and take inspiration from? I am the most avid reader I know in my IRL friend circle which I think already says enough.
I am so lucky that my writing role models all emphasized, in their behavior, the importance of generosity towards other writers, the importance of accepting compliments gracefully and the reminder that to “compare is to despair”
The reason I began writing in the first place is my great love for READING!!!
So what if your only audience is other indie writers? It honestly makes the community so much better. We are ALL struggling and ALL striving to improve our craft together! And if someone has great success I will be cheering them on!!
Now did I leave a review for said authors book a while ago. Yes I did. And while I thought it was a generous review. Said author did indeed complain about my review. The only person I have blocked on Substack.
Overall I have found the community to be full of brilliant and talented people and I will keep reading and buying their work regardless of whether they read mine.
Thank you! Just last night, I just posted a long restacked reply to a Substack author making a very similar claim to all this though he went even further, claiming that writers only ever gather other writers to their social medias and never readers because "they fear rejection" and "only ever want validation". Fear rejection?!!! Raise your hand - how many of you have gotten rejection after rejection of books you've sent to agents or open submissions? How many have gotten bad reviews from readers? How many have had your fellow writers tear your story apart in your critique groups?
Sure, there are some writers groups out there that are all about validation. and you know what? if you go and look at what those writers have done (or not done), it becomes very telling that at least 90% of the time, they are wannabes or nevergonnabes or "its all for the art! The art is all! Why aren't you buying my book? Don't you see my genius?"
I can say from personal experience that finding other writers to follow my and my husband's work, his books, my substack, has been the biggest boon to our careers and writing dreams. My husband often says he wishes someone had told him years ago that "networking" actually meant "making friends" in adultspeak. We've learned the value of going to conferences, joining writing groups, getting known and being known. And most importantly, we've seen the Rising Tide concept in action and know it works!
I'd love to tell these people "before you bash other writers, just remember: those writers have an audience. And they are in communities with other writers and small publishers who also have audiences. And they talk. Nothing on the internet stays private. You support other writers, they support you. They can introduce you to their audience and then, if they like what you have, their fans also become your fans. But if you are a jerk and a troll, word gets around. Both to other writers AND to their fans."
I spend a lot of time reading other authors and boosting other authors. I buy their books. There's no downside to that. We all benefit. And I'm GRATEFUL if someone does the same for me.
We're all just people. And I'm pretty sure disdain for others, readers or writers, isn't a key to any of these people's success.
I am not a voracious reader like many people on here, but I do read. That means I have to be very picky with what I read. I would say there are several problems that make me not read what people write:
1. Genre: If you write horror, I'm not going to read it. Nothing an author can do about that.
2. No one ever posts a good synopsis of their story. It's usually something like, "A medieval dark fantasy" or "Othello but in space" It tells me nothing about the story and I'm not going to click through your Substack and try to see if you've summarized the plot. Why spend months or years writing something and give up on the promo which is the only thing new readers see??? Improve your marketing game to at least something like trad publishing. Read the outlines that they write on the outside of books, copy the format and post it regularly on Notes. One sentence or phrase doesn't cut it.
3. You're bad at writing. Doesn't mean you can't improve but my guess is if JRR Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings on Substack, he would be rich and popular. Hell several authors have become famous posting their books on forums so unfortunately it probably means you have to step up your game.
Maybe this advice is wrong, I don't write fiction unless you count my satire news, but that's my opinion as an outsider.
Erica, you speak about how there’s no gatekeeping here, and how well this community operates. Lately I saw my book is not included in the TIF books written by substackers list. My book was in the previous list. I know we might disagree ideologically but… when I hosted the Thorny Thursday (a romance event) here, I included stories of substackers I didn’t like or agree with. Because a host must be neutral. I know you must’ve heard the lies and out of context paragraphs spread about me by a paranoyed Substacker (who I hope has reflected of her state-of-mind and realized how absurd her occusation were). My humour is dark, I admit. But if you suggest we should promote the work by other Substackers, why not include my book in the new TIF list?
Hi Kathrine, I'm sure you feel you got me in some sort of "gotcha moment" and I hate to take away from your soap box talk here that you've "made a point" because I'm sure you have. I've seen plenty of people say one thing and do another. But I must correct you in thinking I somehow "left you out" of the TiF Books Directory. Because I haven't. If you look at the page in question I have not put ANY of the books published in 2024. The reason for this is I have A LOT going on. But I did include a note at the bottom of the page that clearly states right under the large 2024 "More Books Being Added." I apologize if you felt like I was leaving you out intentionally but there are nearly 50+ books to be added and I simply have not gotten around to having the time to put in the 2024 and prior books. But for you, Kathrine, I will drop my plans for the day with my family and get right to adding your book as well as all the others. I didn't realize this was bothering you so much.
And as to whatever "drama" you may be referring to? I'm sorry to say while I'm aware of it that has no bearing on the TiF Directory List unless the drama has to do with violence to others. Because I try to be as unbiased as I can be when it comes to Top in Fiction.
And I will be restacking this comment if only to share the ScreenShot I have taken of the image and of the fact that your book specifically was published 10/11/2024, which is why it's currently NOT on the page (URL coming as well). However, if you give me a few hours I will be sure to add your book immediately.
Sometimes it just has to be said! And whenever I feel like "no one feels the way I do" so I don't share my opinion/thoughts, I get a comment like yours and I say to myself instead, "I need to share my thoughts more often because it turns out I'm likely NOT alone!" It often just takes one who's willing to stand up against the louder voices to start a discussion and maybe a movement?
You absolutely should. I'm learning the same thing. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. And this post definitely made me feel like I'm not alone either.
I keep saying, every great writer was a reader first. Why are we supposed to abandon *them*? Other writers have been my best readers! They've given the best criticism, shown support when it's earned. I don't know why sh*tting on other writers has become a fad.
And another thing! Just look at film, art, music etc. Artists inspire other artists. Artists buy from other artists. Rock music is a great example here. How many bands love and admire Black Sabbath? You can be an author, and you can also be an author's author without losing anything. Joe Satriani doesn't complain when other guitarists buy tickets to his show.
Favorite part of this comment: "AND ANOTHER THING!" I don't know why that made me feel I was in some comedy prime time television show. Cue the laugh track! But truer words have never been spoken. A writers influence comes from experience coupled with research. You can have all the life lived experience in the world but if you haven't read the fiction you enjoy you will simply have a hard ass time WRITING it yourself! Them's the facts ya'll!
As soon as people start with the "ugh, it's just other writers on here" complaints, I strike their name off my "books to buy" list. It shows utter contempt for the audience they have here, and is all about their superiority complex.
Authors can be fans of each other's work. Wilkie Collins and Charles Dickens proofread and edited each other's work.
Being precious and blaming the algorithm for your clear demonstration of contempt for the readers on the platform you're using isn't how you build an audience or sell books.
It's the same with writers who use social media and don't engage with anyone. They're just like "buy my book!" and then start with the "if I had a book sale for every follower, I wouldn't be so broke" etc. People buy from people, so try being a nicer person. That would be my advice.
I talk to people on social media about mundane shit because there are a lot of funny people on social media. They buy my books because I talk to them and we discover that we have similar interests. Maybe I make them laugh. Maybe they just like me. Maybe they read something I shared on substack and wanted to show support. I don't know, but I'm making connections and that's so much better than doing the hard sell whilst simultaneously insulting other writers. I'm not a sales rep on the cosmetic counter. I'm an author, building relationships with others, no matter if they're authors or not.
I've just started blocking the whiners. I think one recently posted saying "buy my book. I don't want to read your crap." That was a firm block from me. Not because he doesn't want to read 'my' book, but because I wasn't prepared for more of those spammy sales posts on notes. It's boring.
Thank you!
I'm just one of the (I'm sure) thousands (millions?) of writers who started writing because we couldn't find the thing we wanted to read, so decided to create it ourselves.
Generally, readers become writers.
While not an absolute, I suppose, the vast majority of writers are, in fact, readers.
So yes, I very much appreciate those few writers whose weird matches my weird.
Keep on keeping on, y'all.
I've stumbled upon some of these "revelations" as well and I was honestly plainly confused. Isn't it like the first rule of writing that you also have to read? That you will never write a compelling story if you don't have hours and hours of words soaked up into you to learn and take inspiration from? I am the most avid reader I know in my IRL friend circle which I think already says enough.
I am so lucky that my writing role models all emphasized, in their behavior, the importance of generosity towards other writers, the importance of accepting compliments gracefully and the reminder that to “compare is to despair”
I like when you get mad. Thank you for this!
yay. I read at least one hour a day, sometimes two. And nearly all of it is from writers here on Substack.
Erica,
Thank you.
The reason I began writing in the first place is my great love for READING!!!
So what if your only audience is other indie writers? It honestly makes the community so much better. We are ALL struggling and ALL striving to improve our craft together! And if someone has great success I will be cheering them on!!
Now did I leave a review for said authors book a while ago. Yes I did. And while I thought it was a generous review. Said author did indeed complain about my review. The only person I have blocked on Substack.
Overall I have found the community to be full of brilliant and talented people and I will keep reading and buying their work regardless of whether they read mine.
Complaining is tedious. Writing books is not a zero-sum game. If Substack ain’t fun then take a break.
Thank you! Just last night, I just posted a long restacked reply to a Substack author making a very similar claim to all this though he went even further, claiming that writers only ever gather other writers to their social medias and never readers because "they fear rejection" and "only ever want validation". Fear rejection?!!! Raise your hand - how many of you have gotten rejection after rejection of books you've sent to agents or open submissions? How many have gotten bad reviews from readers? How many have had your fellow writers tear your story apart in your critique groups?
Sure, there are some writers groups out there that are all about validation. and you know what? if you go and look at what those writers have done (or not done), it becomes very telling that at least 90% of the time, they are wannabes or nevergonnabes or "its all for the art! The art is all! Why aren't you buying my book? Don't you see my genius?"
I can say from personal experience that finding other writers to follow my and my husband's work, his books, my substack, has been the biggest boon to our careers and writing dreams. My husband often says he wishes someone had told him years ago that "networking" actually meant "making friends" in adultspeak. We've learned the value of going to conferences, joining writing groups, getting known and being known. And most importantly, we've seen the Rising Tide concept in action and know it works!
I'd love to tell these people "before you bash other writers, just remember: those writers have an audience. And they are in communities with other writers and small publishers who also have audiences. And they talk. Nothing on the internet stays private. You support other writers, they support you. They can introduce you to their audience and then, if they like what you have, their fans also become your fans. But if you are a jerk and a troll, word gets around. Both to other writers AND to their fans."
Yes! All of this! When I see people complaining on here about followers, it really makes me turned off to reading their work and supporting it 🥴
I spend a lot of time reading other authors and boosting other authors. I buy their books. There's no downside to that. We all benefit. And I'm GRATEFUL if someone does the same for me.
We're all just people. And I'm pretty sure disdain for others, readers or writers, isn't a key to any of these people's success.
I am not a voracious reader like many people on here, but I do read. That means I have to be very picky with what I read. I would say there are several problems that make me not read what people write:
1. Genre: If you write horror, I'm not going to read it. Nothing an author can do about that.
2. No one ever posts a good synopsis of their story. It's usually something like, "A medieval dark fantasy" or "Othello but in space" It tells me nothing about the story and I'm not going to click through your Substack and try to see if you've summarized the plot. Why spend months or years writing something and give up on the promo which is the only thing new readers see??? Improve your marketing game to at least something like trad publishing. Read the outlines that they write on the outside of books, copy the format and post it regularly on Notes. One sentence or phrase doesn't cut it.
3. You're bad at writing. Doesn't mean you can't improve but my guess is if JRR Tolkien wrote Lord of the Rings on Substack, he would be rich and popular. Hell several authors have become famous posting their books on forums so unfortunately it probably means you have to step up your game.
Maybe this advice is wrong, I don't write fiction unless you count my satire news, but that's my opinion as an outsider.
Erica, you speak about how there’s no gatekeeping here, and how well this community operates. Lately I saw my book is not included in the TIF books written by substackers list. My book was in the previous list. I know we might disagree ideologically but… when I hosted the Thorny Thursday (a romance event) here, I included stories of substackers I didn’t like or agree with. Because a host must be neutral. I know you must’ve heard the lies and out of context paragraphs spread about me by a paranoyed Substacker (who I hope has reflected of her state-of-mind and realized how absurd her occusation were). My humour is dark, I admit. But if you suggest we should promote the work by other Substackers, why not include my book in the new TIF list?
Hi Kathrine, I'm sure you feel you got me in some sort of "gotcha moment" and I hate to take away from your soap box talk here that you've "made a point" because I'm sure you have. I've seen plenty of people say one thing and do another. But I must correct you in thinking I somehow "left you out" of the TiF Books Directory. Because I haven't. If you look at the page in question I have not put ANY of the books published in 2024. The reason for this is I have A LOT going on. But I did include a note at the bottom of the page that clearly states right under the large 2024 "More Books Being Added." I apologize if you felt like I was leaving you out intentionally but there are nearly 50+ books to be added and I simply have not gotten around to having the time to put in the 2024 and prior books. But for you, Kathrine, I will drop my plans for the day with my family and get right to adding your book as well as all the others. I didn't realize this was bothering you so much.
And as to whatever "drama" you may be referring to? I'm sorry to say while I'm aware of it that has no bearing on the TiF Directory List unless the drama has to do with violence to others. Because I try to be as unbiased as I can be when it comes to Top in Fiction.
And I will be restacking this comment if only to share the ScreenShot I have taken of the image and of the fact that your book specifically was published 10/11/2024, which is why it's currently NOT on the page (URL coming as well). However, if you give me a few hours I will be sure to add your book immediately.
ALL OF THIS!! Thank you so much for putting what some of us have been feeling into words.
Sometimes it just has to be said! And whenever I feel like "no one feels the way I do" so I don't share my opinion/thoughts, I get a comment like yours and I say to myself instead, "I need to share my thoughts more often because it turns out I'm likely NOT alone!" It often just takes one who's willing to stand up against the louder voices to start a discussion and maybe a movement?
You absolutely should. I'm learning the same thing. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. And this post definitely made me feel like I'm not alone either.
I keep saying, every great writer was a reader first. Why are we supposed to abandon *them*? Other writers have been my best readers! They've given the best criticism, shown support when it's earned. I don't know why sh*tting on other writers has become a fad.
And another thing! Just look at film, art, music etc. Artists inspire other artists. Artists buy from other artists. Rock music is a great example here. How many bands love and admire Black Sabbath? You can be an author, and you can also be an author's author without losing anything. Joe Satriani doesn't complain when other guitarists buy tickets to his show.
Favorite part of this comment: "AND ANOTHER THING!" I don't know why that made me feel I was in some comedy prime time television show. Cue the laugh track! But truer words have never been spoken. A writers influence comes from experience coupled with research. You can have all the life lived experience in the world but if you haven't read the fiction you enjoy you will simply have a hard ass time WRITING it yourself! Them's the facts ya'll!
As soon as people start with the "ugh, it's just other writers on here" complaints, I strike their name off my "books to buy" list. It shows utter contempt for the audience they have here, and is all about their superiority complex.
Authors can be fans of each other's work. Wilkie Collins and Charles Dickens proofread and edited each other's work.
Being precious and blaming the algorithm for your clear demonstration of contempt for the readers on the platform you're using isn't how you build an audience or sell books.
It's the same with writers who use social media and don't engage with anyone. They're just like "buy my book!" and then start with the "if I had a book sale for every follower, I wouldn't be so broke" etc. People buy from people, so try being a nicer person. That would be my advice.
I talk to people on social media about mundane shit because there are a lot of funny people on social media. They buy my books because I talk to them and we discover that we have similar interests. Maybe I make them laugh. Maybe they just like me. Maybe they read something I shared on substack and wanted to show support. I don't know, but I'm making connections and that's so much better than doing the hard sell whilst simultaneously insulting other writers. I'm not a sales rep on the cosmetic counter. I'm an author, building relationships with others, no matter if they're authors or not.
I've just started blocking the whiners. I think one recently posted saying "buy my book. I don't want to read your crap." That was a firm block from me. Not because he doesn't want to read 'my' book, but because I wasn't prepared for more of those spammy sales posts on notes. It's boring.